Fannish question...

[akamine_chan]

How do writers feel about someone who saves their stories, puts them into a archive file and posts it on their LiveJournal, encouraging others to download and share? Most of them seem to be stripped from websites (I recognize the layout of the new due Slash) and have their headers intact, but at least one story that I checked does not. They are mostly the classic stories from authors like kelliem, aukestrel, resonant8, bethbethbeth, cesperanza and others. Over 200 of 'em.

Is this kosher? I've never run across this before and don't know what the accepted rule is in fandom.

ETA: here.

ETA2: Quick and dirty list of stories (and some authors, off the top of my head) under the cut...sorta in alphabetical order - you might use ctrl-F to search...


love and understanding series
love and light series
love and together series
miscellani (??)(seems to be a Sentinel story)
a dare's a dare - cesperanza
a fine and private place - resonant8
a gift from the earth
a gift from the heart
a is for apple - pearl-o
a miracle for christmas
a modest proposal
a mother's love
a thousand words - kelliem
a true love story
about a dog - cesperanza
acting queer
adorned - resonant8
after dark
ain't no sunshine when she'd gone
all shook up
all the comforts of home - rattlecatcher
alliances
ambassador status
american way - resonant8
amigos
an admirable solution - cesperanza
anabasis - purna
anima - js cavalcante
april fool's
arbitrae
as a friend
as he's in it
ashes and fires
at the old ballgame
attractive series - kelliem
backwards - denile11
baresack
beguiled
belong
between life and death
black spikes
boardwalk - kelliem
body heat - rushlight
borders
broadway hotel - resonant8
broken face - purna
buddy breathing
burning
busted/tapestry - anonymous co
by all rights
by your side
sword of damocles - caffre
one to nine - caffree
can't get there from here
catch and release - kelliem
chances
changing gears - kelliem
chase the past
chicago's most wanted - cesperanza
christmas wishes
clan of the cave mountie
cocoon
colour of change
coming home
conjunction
covered
creature comfort
dance of the heart and mind
dance
dancing to our dream
dancing
deep cover
deep end
devil in a blood dress
dibs
diefenbaker's other daddy
discourse
done with love
dress up
dressage
due south case files of the cpd
embarrassment of riches
empty enabling
enduring distance - cesperanza
everything i hoped for
executor - kat allison
eye of a hurricane - aukestrel
fade to black
fading into red
false spring
family
family portrait - journey
family things
family traditions
finders keepers - dsudis
finding the way home
finding the words - bertybertle
first wives club
five senses
five times ray kowalski was ashamed of his dick... - js cavalcante
foresight
forever
forget me nots
four virtues - cesperanza
fraser in chains - rushlight
from afar
garnish - kelliem
god save the queen
gossip
head over heels
heavy bag - kat allison
hello city
HJO - matthew haldeman-time
home
honor and glory
hook, line and sinker - kelliem
house keeping - resonant8
how ray got his groove back epilogue - bone
how ray got his groove back - bone and aristide
ice castles
if it walks like a duck
if red serge could talk
in a split second
in him best interests
in the bag
in which there are turtles
indelible - cl finn
journey's end/pack - journey
juggling act - cesperanza
just breathe
knowledge
kowalski is bleeding - cesperanza
kowalski is dead - elementalv
lady in red
laid bare
left turn
legwork - grey
light and darkness
likewise
lonely no more
lost partners
loving him
loving north - resonant8
lunacy
mangy dog - cesperanza
march snow
mechanic at stony creek - shedoc
memories
my fraser
need
nell' amore ancora - pollitt
neon
never cold again
no ordinary love
no such things as santa
northern comfort - kelliem
northern light
not buddies
odyssey
open arms
pack song
parental guidance - alanna, starfish and kass
pas de deux - sihaya black
picture frame of rage
plain white wrapper - aukestrel
pristine
private emotion
purity
push
q&a - bethbethbeth
queensbury's rules
ray's christmas epiphany
real south
reflections in mirrors
refraction - shrift
reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated
revelations
ring of fire - zen&nancy
roots rain - kat allison
run to him - callie
say no
saying the words
scarlet fever
schisms - resonant8
scrabble - cesperanza
scratch
screw it
second chance second year
second chance
second
sheets
shell game
show a little lace
sin
sixteen of june - resonant8
sleeping beauty trilogy
slow pitch
small fry - kelliem
snoop - kelliem
solidarity
something green - kelliem
something to live for
somewhere else to be
soul dancer
soul deep love
stalling
stealing light - kelliem
steps series
surviving
sweetness - livia
tea & insanity
tea for three
the adventure of benton and ray
the better angels - bone and aristide
the better part
the bodyguard - cesperanza
the call
the catch - kelliem
the course - bone and aristide
the dark stranger - rushlight
the dating game
the dreamcatcher
the easiest choice - cl finn
the end of the road - kat allison
the fraser in chains series - rushlight
the good husband
the guy thing
the highway man
the iditarod - aukestrel
the killer replacements - cesperanza
the offer
the one that got away
the outline of a circle
the politics of x - zen&nancy
the pretender
the right price
the road to somewhere
the sniff test
the snow prince
the vampire in read
the voyage home
the warm of spring
the world still turns
the yank
there and back again
thinking twice series
three christmases
three men and baby - sam80853
three out of three
trinity
twilight zone - pir8fancier
twin sized bed
two hearts
two brokenhearted men - maria jackson
unconscious
undercover
understanding fraser
understood
unguarded protectorate - mairead triste and bone
unloaded gun
unplanned
use me
voluble
waxwork
wayward
what the heart sees
when bad frannies happen to good mounties
when the ice goes out - kelliem
when the whip comes down - nancy
when we talk about wolves
wildly courteous way
wildy dangerous ways
will you ever erase your mind
wings
winter's end
wired
with six you get eggroll - cesperanza
wolf at the door
wolf song
wonder
yukon morning
zen

also the due South slash virtual season 5 and one episode from 6


ETA3 and epilogue: She has deleted the posts with both the due South rar file as well as the Harry Potter ones, replacing them with an apology post here. As suspected by some, she was clueless rather than malicious and very willing to correct her mistakes.

Comments

[j-s-cavalcante.livejournal.com]

Not kosher. It is not okay to post someone else's fic on a site without the author's express permission.

*scampers back to easel*

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

A link to the offending archive might be helpful.

[akamine_chan]

Now added.

[lucifuge-5.livejournal.com]

I'm with JS on this one, Aka. It's one thing to have a rec page/comm with proper linkage. It's quite another to do something as dodgy as that. Something is just not ringing okay to me.

[maryavatar.livejournal.com]

Oh Hell, no! Archiving someone else's stories without permission is a serious breach of fandom etiquette.

[sam80853.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's all right, no. They need the authors permission. There is a reason why for example you need a password to get to aukestrel's stories.

[ifreet.livejournal.com]

Yeah, even with attributions, that doesn't seem okay without getting the author's explicit permission.

When authors have pulled their stories/sites, I've occasionally gotten copies of the files from friends, but always as a friend-to-friend favor via email or chat. It's an unusual situation and even then, the file isn't widely distributed.

[lamardeuse.livejournal.com]

Uncool.

[simplystars.livejournal.com]

Umm, that would be a ginormous OH NO THEY DIDN'T!

Because that is SO VERY WRONG. >:-/

There is a not-C6D fandom which does post "lost" fics for download, but only with the author's permission and always with the stipulation that when/if the author revokes said permission, or asks that their stories not be shared, that is honored without question.

Sounds like there needs to be some smacking around with a common-sense-and-fandom-etiquette stick... *grr*

[severely-lupine.livejournal.com]

Very not cool.

[elementalv.livejournal.com]

I'd be seriously pissed if they hadn't bothered to ask first. I prefer to control where my stories are archived.

[elementalv.livejournal.com]

And color me seriously pissed off.

[sprat.livejournal.com]

To share privately with a friend, maybe, but publicly available like an archive is not cool.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Links are fine; archiving people's work for them is not. Where is this place?

[akamine_chan]

http://jude-cjv.livejournal.com/3358.html

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you alerted us to this!

[innocentsmith.livejournal.com]

What is this ass haberdashery? Definitely not okay, and kind of worrying w/r/t the person's intentions.

[ampliflyer.livejournal.com]

No. It's not cool.

For your own use, maybe, yeah. For sharing/distributing - hell no.

[shadadukal]

Definitely uncool.

[alex51324.livejournal.com]

I've not heard of anyone doing that. Definitely not standard practice. The person's journal is old (2006) but her userinfo shows that she has made one comment and received three (of which two are people asking her to take their stories off of her site). She is clearly not an experienced fandom person, and may be under the misapprehension that this is OK. Guess we'll have to wait and see how she responds to the comments where people have asked her to remove their stories.

I'm probably not alone in that the second or third thing I thought of upon seeing this was "does she have anything of mine on there?!?" I downloaded the thing to check (I'm not on it, fortunately)--if anyone else wants to check for their own stuff (edit: without giving her the download, I mean), I can email you the list of titles. (The stories are listed by title only in the folder, so I can't go through and identify stuff by author.) She does have good taste (apart from the startling omission of any of my work), I'll give her that.

[slashylassy.livejournal.com]

Alex51324,
could you email me the titles. I am very leery of doing the download thing. I am a very suspicious person and cannot help thinking that site would be a lovely way to spread a virus/trojan/very bad computer thingy.
You can reach me at nofakes99@yahoo.com. Thanks!

[alex51324.livejournal.com]

OK, I was under the impression that I'd be able to cut and paste the title list into a document with little trouble, but it's proving to be more difficult than I thought. Stay tuned.

[alex51324.livejournal.com]

sorry, it turns out I made this offer too hastily. I haven't been able to figure out a way to copy the title list (apart from re-typing them all, and there are 325 of them). I'd be glad to check for specific titles if you give me a list.

[akamine_chan]

List now appended to post.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

I'd be grateful for the list too

forgottenfutures at gmail dot com

[alex51324.livejournal.com]

Sorry, it turns out I made this offer too hastily. I haven't been able to figure out a way to copy the title list (apart from re-typing them all, and there are 325 of them). I'd be glad to check for specific titles if you give me a list.

[akamine_chan]

List now appended to post.

[zellieh]

If you could email me the list also when you get it sorted out, I'd appreciate it. I only have two DS stories, but I'd still like to know, just in case.

My email address is [my LJ username] at gmail dot com.

Thank you.

[alex51324.livejournal.com]

Sorry, it turns out I made this offer too hastily. I haven't been able to figure out a way to copy the title list (apart from re-typing them all, and there are 325 of them). It seems like there has got to be a way to do it, but it's over my head. I'd be glad to check for specific titles if you give me a list.

[slashylassy.livejournal.com]

Thanks for trying Alex! I only have two stories (The Great Mountie Anti-Smoking Campaign, and The Real Ray). I appreciate you taking the time to check for me. Thanks a bunch!

[zellieh]

Thanks for making the offer anyway.

I'm not particularly tech-savvy, but I've had some luck (sometimes) with copying and pasting the text into Notepad, which strips out all the formatting so that I can then post it to LJ. Of course, sometimes, it goes horribly wrong and I end up with an unreadable mess. ::sigh:: I wish I could be more help.

I only have two stories: Eight Weeks, and: Of All The Gin Joints. If you could check for them, that'd be great! Thanks again.

ETA -- and AkimeChan has posted the list of titles to the main post, which saves both of us some time and trouble! ::grin::

[akamine_chan]

List now appended to post.

[idreamedmusic.livejournal.com]

I'm with the others - linking to stories is fine. Opening an archive and including fics without asking the authors definitely isn't.

[malnpudl.livejournal.com]

ABSOLUTELY NOT OKAY.

[elementalv.livejournal.com]

Nothing there of yours, but it's all due South stories.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

OK - not my fandom then; sorry, I got the impression it was more of a mixed batch.

[elementalv.livejournal.com]

She had Harry Potter stories up as well, but those were withdrawn when she pulled the due South stories.

[kelliem.livejournal.com]

If she'd asked first I probably would've said she could, but since she didn't, then it's definitely not all right! Thanks for the head's up.

[etcetera-cat.livejournal.com]

Epic fail. And let me go and put on my angry face.

I mean: rec lists and deliciousing and so forth are sane and sensible and a way to get people to read awesome stuff, but archiving/offering public downloads or author material without prior permission or authorisation is just wrongcakes.

About the only scenario I can see with up/downloading of another author's work in in cases of (self) site take down or story orphaning, where the author doesn't want the story posted publicly and associated with their pseud, but has given permission for one-to-one transfers between people.

[etcetera-cat.livejournal.com]

...and having just caught sight of the list ETA on actually submitting this comment, and finding one of my own stories (which: thankfully just one, compared to the poor people who've had large chunks of their back catalogue half inched), I'm heading into E-CAT SMASH territory and am going to have to not go near that link until I can be civil

[meresy.livejournal.com]

Nope, that's not cool. Distribution is the prerogative of the author.

I save copies of stuff all the time for my own reading, and maybe I'd share with my besties if they were looking for something I had but couldn't link to--but that'd be with the understanding that you don't just post things around willy-nilly. The only fics you get to zip are your own.

Boo, random person.

[etcetera-cat.livejournal.com]

Another ETA: The post has been deleted and my comment (essentially: dude, not cool! My fics can be found here, here, here and here. Feel free to distribute the links, but no archiving) has recieved the reply of:

Subject: My apology
hello,
may i apologize, i didn't want to offend you,
i love the stories i collect so much that i just wanted
to share them, so other could enjoy them to.
i will erase to post entry from my journal,
and keep my rapidshare files only as a backup
in case my laptop crashes again. if i can do anything to
make it up to you, please feel free to ask.
have a nice day,
jude

So, hooray for politeness and promptness in correcting the faux pas once it's been pointed out?

[elementalv.livejournal.com]

I received the same response, and I was happy to see she'd pulled the Harry Potter stories as well.

[alex51324.livejournal.com]

Hooray! Yes, I would say that is model response to having one's Epic Fail brought to one's attention. Way to be classy, Jude-cjv! (Note that that's Classy with a C, not Klassy with a K.)